New Fort Irwin Dress Code Irks Spouses

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A new dress code for off-duty servicemembers and family at Fort Irwin, an isolated California Army post, has raised the ire of military spouses who wonder if the military really has the right to tell them how to dress.

The dress code, which is illustrated on the poster below and has been placed on buildings around Fort Irwin, bans things like ripped jeans, backward hats, pajama pants, very short shirts and shorts and sagging pants.

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“While one could certainly make the argument that some of these are common sense, I could just as easily argue that backwards ball caps and tank tops, not to mention ripped jeans which are very much a style right now and I continue to wear mine around post, are pretty benign,” spouse Ame Esterline commented on the Fort Irwin Facebook page. “The fact that so many of you continue to accept these small lapses in personal freedoms is not evidence of your positivity, but instead shows how willingly we are as a society to give control over to another simply because a given issue does not affect us.”

The Facebook post included a long message of explanation, which has been attributed to the post’s senior enlisted official, Command Sgt. Major Dale Perez.

“When it comes to off-duty attire, what might be offensive to you may be just normal clothing to some. It takes discipline to be a professional, and to be a professional it’s a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week way of life,” he said. “Bottom line – this was the right decision to make.”

He wrote that they hadn’t made the decision because of any one incident.

Fort Irwin, which houses the National Training Center, is home to about 9,000 people and is located in the middle of the Mojave Desert. Units use the training area there for predeployment dress rehearsals.

Because the post is so isolated – about 40 miles from the nearest real town – most families feel they don’t have any option but to live on post. If you’ve ever been to Fort Irwin, or even to Barstow, you know how in the middle of nowhere it is.

The new policy gives programs and facilities on Irwin, such as the commissary, the right to deny service to anyone not meeting the dress code.

Some characterized the new policy as being unfair or discriminatory. A few were especially annoyed by the “house shoes” and “pajama pants” prohibition.

“So would you tell an eight-month pregnant woman to take off her pajama pants? Just wondering. I never wore pajamas around post until I was pregnant,” wrote Crystal Knapp. “The concern being that if you allow it for a pregnant woman (and you should), you can’t really tell everyone else not to … Personally, I’d rather spouses be forced to color their offensive looking clown-colored hair. That’s a lousy example for children, too.”

“The rest I agree on, but PJs and house shoes?!!! I take care of myself, but if I have to run to the commissary in its opening hours, I’m not getting dolled up,” wrote Rose Natividad. “House shoes and PJs are okay with me.”

Of course, not everyone commented that this was a bad policy. Spouse Heather Ann wrote that she is “sick of seeing butt cheeks hanging out, men’s underwear from sagging pants, girls wearing shirts that are semi see-through with no bra, and, my favorite, bikini top with a open front shirt over it and thong hanging out!”

But even some who were OK with the policy are not OK with the poster displaying it. They said the graphic images posted all around Fort Irwin were more offensive than the people wearing the banned clothes.

“I don’t see why this poster has to be on every building. The only time my young boys see a girl in a thong or “booty shorts” is when go ANYWHERE on post and they see this poster,” wrote Megan Studdard. “I personally could care less how people dress; it’s their choice and honestly I have not seen anyone walking around Fort Irwin wearing a thong or bikini. Did ‘The Commander’ proof this poster before it was plastered up on every building around post?”

Fort Irwin is far from the only installation, Army or otherwise, to have a dress code. Navy bases in Japan enforce a strict dress code that prohibits active wear, such as running shorts, from being worn in the commissary and elsewhere, among other things. And the US Army bases on Hawaii prohibit items such as see-through clothing.

What do you think? Should every base have a policy like this one? Should pajama pants be banned from public places on every installation?

About the Author

Amy Bushatz
Amy is the editor in chief of Military.com’s spouse and family blog SpouseBuzz.com. A journalist by trade, Amy also covers spouse and family news for Military.com where she is the managing editor of spouse and family content. An Army wife and mother of two, Amy has been featured as a subject matter expert on CNN.com, NPR, Fox News, NBC, CBS, ABC and BBC as well as in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Washington Post. Follow her on twitter @amybushatz.

218 Comments on "New Fort Irwin Dress Code Irks Spouses"

  1. the first mel | August 7, 2013 at 8:54 am |

    Base facilities and programs have the right to demand that patrons follow a dress code. Even civilian businesses have dress codes; "no shirt, no shoes, no service". I don't see the issue with dressing appropriately when you are utilizing base services and they didn't say that you can't wear these items when you are at your home on base. It takes a few minutes to throw on appropriate clothing before you leave your house. If your outside clothing is that uncomfortable to wear while you are out, buy larger clothes. Wear the pj pants and house shoes when you are at home.

  2. Living on post is a privilege. I reckon they are within their right.

  3. BobSacamano | August 7, 2013 at 9:41 am |

    Who'd [want] to look like a thug or a pole-dancin' bimbo!!! Albeit the off-duty dress code [should] be self-policing, maybe some nudging is necessary…

  4. the first mel | August 7, 2013 at 9:56 am |

    Is there a reason why my past 2 attempts at posting on this article have not gone through and appeared with the other comments?

  5. sabrinacking | August 7, 2013 at 10:00 am |

    Years ago, I worked with a post commander who will remain nameless..who himself went around with a digital camera taking unacceptable dress pictures then making posters to post at the PX, Commissary et all. At the time I thought it was hysterical…and I still do. I don't personally find anything wrong with decorum.

  6. If you don't have to pay taxes on your items, then in my mind you should dress decently if they ask you to. But this has seriously been a policy forever, they just have to post posters with pictures to get your attention now being that people are starting to get out of hand. Once I wore flip flops to a commissary before I knew that was a huge no no… I won't make that mistake again, and that was three years ago. Cover your shoulders, butt, and your entire top half, and don't wear frumpy clothes. Its not Wal-Mart. PJ's are not made to be worn outside, and I hate the trend (sorry Nena, I'm not trying to pick at you). I'm 9 months pregnant and the worst thing I wear is flare yoga pants and an oversize top only because the maternity pants can't accommodate how low my belly just got. I'm just as comfy and I don't look like I rolled out of bed.
    And males with the sweatpants or boxers showing is just as bad if not worse.
    I just don't feel its too much to ask to dress appropriately on a military base in stores that are tax-free. Its not like they are asking you to remove all faddish colors from your hair or limit you to natural-looking make-up or flat close toed shoes only.

  7. Meh, you live on post, you accept the rules. Pj pants in public to me are just as stupid as saggy pants and getting dressed to leave the house is not getting "dolled up". Just my opinion.

  8. So happy to hear this and hope that all military installations bring back enforcement of the dress code. Common decency and sense may be lacking in the general public, but the military acccepting the ways of the general public are just adding to the downslide of the society as a whole. We should be leading the way, not folowing the bad examples! When I first joined the military I remember all of these being enforced and I sure have missed the enforcement. Thank God at least one senior leader has the fortitude to stand up and do what's right! Good for him and Ft Irwin.

  9. I live on Pendleton and these posters are everywhere. I think it's great. We are representatives of our service members, their branches, and the bases we live on. You never know who is on base. Shouldn't we give a good impression?

  10. One of the best policies I have heard in years.

  11. I went to a private college that had a similar dress code (albeit much stricter). People complained about it, just like they will about on post dress codes. The fact of the matter is, if you don't like it, don't go on post. The leaders want to project a positive, family friendly image of the base and expect soldiers and their families help them do so. Are some of the rules stupid? Sure, but if you want to be there, you can choose to abide by them or go home. Personally, I like the focus that has been placed on professionalism. It helps the civilian world take our soldiers and military life more seriously.

  12. So stupid. I can’t believe we’re spending time, money, and brain space on this. Who cares what others wear when they’re shopping? I mean seriously. Clothing is totally subjective and as an adult I feel that I can dress myself. We all have our flip flop and gym shorts days and we ALL have our PJ days. I just wanna get in and get my cheap bit worry about BS dress codes.

  13. Sadly, the only ones that have an issue with this will be the lazy dependapotamus'. They married their spouses with the clear understanding that he/she was in the military and they conform to orders and regulations from higher.

    I don't know why its such a shock, if you don't like it then dont reenlist and get out. How hard is it to put jeans, a shirt, and shoes on? I mean really?

  14. LOVE IT. Should be implemented across the board.

  15. What goes around. Back in the day a lady didn't move around the installations with curlers in her hair.

  16. How is a rear-facing basecap offensive? I see this as a step in a dangerous direction. The same arguments used here are used in the Middle East to enforce the dress code for women – Burkas, head-to-toe black robes… I get that there is a middle ground between thongs and that. But if today an "exposed midriff" is forbidden, and shorts can't be "too short" (what is too short anyway?), I fear tomorrow I might have to cover my shoulders, then my neckline, then my knees… What about bright colors drawing attention to the body? Or geometric prints doing the same? Flashy jewelry? A "wild" hairdo?
    Where does it start, where will it end?

    In Europe, the USA are known as the "Land of the plentiful freedoms", but actually, the personal freedoms in this country are a lot less than over there.

  17. I know for some, the dress code seems extreme, but here is the deal, if you get dressed every morning and cover the parts that need to be covered a dress code shouldn't be a problem. The same such dress code was put into place when we moved to Japan many years ago and it wasn't a big deal. I personally think nothing says "I have given up on myself" more then pajamas in public. I have been in the commissary and seen couples where the husband is dressed, nice jeans, a nice shirt and the wife is in her pajamas, I cannot believe this woman's husband is really okay with this, mine wouldn't be, he doesn't expect me to look like a beauty queen but he expects me to put on a pair jeans when I leave the house! The man helps defend freedom for goodness sake the least I can do is look presentable for him in public!

  18. Baseball hats worn sideways or backwards look stupid. Always reminds me of the little kid sucking his thumb with his pants down around his knees and baseball cap backwards.

  19. I agree with the new rules completely. Shopping and living on post are privileges and they can create whatever rules they want to. If you don't like it, don't go there.This is not one of those times to start with if you let them create one rule then where does it end propaganda. This is the US military, it is their facilities and their land, they can do whatever they please. When you enter that gate, you are entering their front door. I create the rules when you enter my front door and they can also. Being a soldier and/or military spouse is an honor and we are held accountable for much more than civilians. If you don't agree with this then possibly you or your spouse are in the wrong career field.

  20. I'm not offended by the people who wear pajamas out in public.. Simply amazed at how pathetically lazy they are.. Reflective of America in general I suppose.. Good on the Army for trying to fight that image.

  21. Hooah Army! Navy and Marine Corps have been doing this for decades. I too believe that there are items on the prohibited list that are not in line with today's fashion (faded/worn jeans). However, my family has always been able to find attire that meets the policy while maintaining fashion and comfort. We’ve all seen it, raised an eyebrow, and maybe even commented to our significant other on: seeing underwear outside their intended clothing, let alone through the clothing (overstretched yoga pants), exposed cheeks or the muffin top, and the bikinis under a see-through sarong, dress, or shirt/blouse. The rubber flip flops are for the beach, pools, and community showers. Do we really need to define the true purpose of pajamas? I personally do not like head gear of any kind outside my uniform items so I won’t even go there. All our Commanders are asking us to do is dress with pride and professionalism which can easily be done casually and comfortably. Do you want or allow your kids to dress like that; if not, then why would you?

  22. In regards to the Commanders reviewing the posters before displaying; I’m confident that legal reviewed and approved them. Use them for your children as educational tools on how not to dress and maybe in a couple of decades military commanders will not have to waste time addressing these issues. I think the next post/base poster should show what’s not accepted during service formals!

  23. I'm actually appauled at how many people approve of, and actually support this policy. Are you kidding me? I thought the point of the military was to protect our freedoms? Like oh I don't know…freedom of speech? (Which in case you forgot also covers clothing and fashion styles) Anyone who joins the military understands the dress code as soon as they get out of basic, but now your going to impose a dress code for dependents? Why should someones wife (or husband) be subjected to a similar dress code as those of their spouse..when THEY'RE NOT IN THE MILITARY. This is a dangerous path to be treading on. If we have the right to tell spouses what they can and can't wear while they go food shopping, whats next? Personally I would love to see someone have the balls to come up to my wife and tell her what she can't and can't wear if she's picking up some groceries. Lets get your priorities in order there Uncle Sam

  24. The fact of the matter is that NO ONE has the right to tell someone who is not under contract from the US government what they can and cannot wear, even on base. If you want to tell your spouse how they should dress, that's your own perogative, but don't speak for the rest of us. I may not agree your fashion style looks good, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to wear it.

  25. Look people they have you arguing over pajamas as they are increasing your TRICARE. Get a grip and focus on the real issues.

  26. Also the exchanges are a rip-off on their prices even with the no-tax. Why is gas more on base than off-base if it is just taxes?

  27. I have no objections if they are giving you money to shop and live on their bases adhere to their rules. Pretty hard to bite the hand that feeds you.

  28. The base belongs to the tax payers and the base commander has all the authority granted to them to manage it as they see fit, for anyone living or working on the base, to include spouses and dependents.

  29. oldbrokendownretiree | August 7, 2013 at 9:50 pm |

    Danny; being in the military,living, working and using base facilities is a privilege, if you don't like it go away, but if you stay abide by the rules or face the consequences, end of story, The military and their families portray an image and that image is not the saggy-panted, hoochy-mama, stereotypical trailer trash image. If you don't like it either get out or don't join; in the military, you forfeit some of your personal freedoms to uphold all of them, I realize that won't make sense to you, but to those of us who have actually dedicated our life to defending something it makes perfect sense.

  30. While some of it makes sense, what sort of swim suits do they approve of?
    The type that used to come down to the knees on men and women?

  31. Well if you do not like the polices get off bace.

  32. Back in the 60s, woe be to them that wore ANY kind or color of jeans. And it better have a belt with it As far as footwear goes, the only places that gym shoes were allowed was when you were running, or in the gym. going through all of the loops, and the buckle be centered in front of you. As far as shirts go, they were to be buttoned to within one button of your neck, and there was to be no writing or ads on it or any of your sweaters or jackets.. As far as ties go, it was a long tie tied in a Windsor or 4 in hand knot, and NO BOW TIES. As far as jewelry goes, it was to be kept at a minimum so as not to come across as gaudy. It seems to me that this is what they want to get back to.

  33. I think the majority of our dress code here is needed. Why should anyone be dressing wither half naked or in their pjs . I think these wives forget we are a direct reflection of our husbands. I personally don't want to be seen looking like that by anyone my husband works with. Pajamas is probably one of the things that annoys me the most. Its not that hard at any time to throw on some jeans and tshirt or yoga pants something better than jammies. Honestly if ppl learned to dress appropriately they wouldn't have to put up posters to tell us how to dress. Just an fyi these type of dress codes have been around forever they just havnt been enforced and they need to be. Danng The military shouldn't tell the families how to dress well maybe the families shouldn't be entitled to discounts or any of the numerous things we get for free either since we are not the ones working for these things. Just saying.

  34. "No one's going to tell me how to dress yada, yada, yada". You know maybe if some of you self indulgent, self centered, materialistic, petulant DEPENDAPOTOMUSES would have had parents that taught you how to dress before leaving the house instead of allowing you to express your individuality, you wouldn't have to be told you look like a trailer trash slut/barracks ho that just crawled out of their last "baby daddys" bed before going shopping that morning.

  35. You can always tell when we are going back to a peace time military.

  36. Robert Everhart | August 8, 2013 at 7:56 am |

    Good for the base.

  37. As a tax payer I like seeing seeing my money spent on respect. Way to go on the new dress code!

  38. I think the military should mandate that all dependents also prohibited from wearing hats at any angle other than straight ahead in the direction of the face and any diviation is absolutley prohibited. And they should mandate that all males get military style haricuts and all females wear their hair above the neckline to ensure all patrons are adhering to post/base norms and look professional.

  39. Thank god the important issues facing the military are being addressed. Screw possible changes in retirement and increased Tricare payments; forget that pesky War on Terror!

    Death to pajama pants!

  40. It's about time somebody wake up and bring the issue to the table. The base commander has right to apply and enforce the proper rules about dressing in and around their installation. We need to show pride and professionalism in our military, that includes dependents 365/24/7. Bravo Zulu to that base commander to bring some sence of pride.

  41. Camp Pendleton has been doing this for years. I agree with the “pajama” pants being banned. Being stationed on camp Pendleton you see all kinds of weirdo spouses. It is truly an embarrassment when you see a well groomed man holding hands with a woman that looks like she just crawled out of a dumpster. I agree with the holding dependents to a higher standard, if we can do it so can you. Don’t embarrass us!

  42. You may be a rebel, but your old man is in the service and you both decided to live on base – so there are rules just like in society – you have the freedom and option to move off base and live in the hood and dress whatever way you want. In reference to no violin case in the chow because he may sneek food out. Think about it – some idiot not following the rules probably took food out of the chow hall against the rules before and ruined it for all the people playing by the rules – get it "the rules". Don't like the rules – move. Don't like the chow hall rules – eat off base or at home. Don't like the military lifestyle – GET OUT and see how long that lasts not playing by the "rules"! As for the flip flops at your husbands promotion – yes that is a "complete lack of common sense" – I'm sure you made him proud dressed like a "river women" at an important part of his military career in front of his peers and leadership.

  43. In the military you don't have the rights you do as a civilian. So they have every right to expect you to follow some set standards of dress and conduct. There would be no order and disicpline if you could do and wear what ever you want. You are in the military or a spouse of someone who is. You don't like the dress codes get off post, or get out of the military, as you don't really have a clue as what it intails to be in the military.

  44. You are representing our military on duty and off duty! This goes for spouses as well!! If you don’t like the rules then move off base, shop off base and wear what ever you want:) get used to the dress codes because there are other bases that are doing this as well!! What command says goes!!! You made a choice when you chose the military life!!!

  45. As a former Air Force brat, an Air Force retiree and DoD civilian who works at the commissary, I applaud the CG and CSM at Ft Irwin for what they have done. Quite frankly though some people might find the pictures offensive, it's a good idea since some of these lunkheads that serve today need visual aids.
    When I was growing up on USAF installations in the 70s and 80s, it was unheard of to be attired in such a fashion on base period. Men were not even allowed to have earrings as well. I even recall as an Airman that there was a section in AFR 35-10 and AFI 36-2903 telling you what civilian clothing was not acceptable to wear on base. As a cashier in the commissary today, I have seen just about everything to include women going commando in mini skirts. The last 25 years has seen a decline in the standards of dress and appearance of both military members and dependents which is a shame.
    Leadership DoD wide needs to step up to the plate and follow the example set at Ft Irwin.

  46. Cortney (Vet) | August 8, 2013 at 10:19 am |

    For one thing, why is it always the spouses that complain about everything? I am getting sick and tired of them they think they no everything about the military and they think they can do whatever. Well ladies suck it up because like any other military member and vet will agree, "It's the Military." If spouses are complaining about these rules well then dang they wouldn't last a min in the Military , and that's the thing SPOUSES it is a military facility not Walmart where you can go and dress like you want these are rules that are by the military because that is how the military is. So again suck it up because for one it's not going to change and deal with the military owning your military member cause that's what it is.

  47. Your "rights" are as those described by the military installation. Don't like the rules? Move off post — or better yet – dress like a "normal" human being. Spouses and dependent children need to reflect a little more "raising." But that's just MY opinion……

  48. Be happy, th emilitary could go back to the days of uniforms 24hrs a day and permission to marry an dleave post!! Our soldiers anddependants look too ganstaish and trashy. I've seen people @ th ecommisary/PX that are wearing clothes more appropriate for the beach than shopping!! The military is just that and can set the rules fo rtheir bases. IF you don't like it, get out or live off post!! You sign up for all th ebennies and the down sides like obeying the rules of those appointed over you!! It ain't IBM!!

  49. Vietnam Sailor | August 8, 2013 at 10:56 am |

    Its about time that the Bases start putting a dress code back implace, when I was in the service wife's had to wear dresses to go to the Commissary and exchange. they had to meet certain lengths to. A military Spouse should take pride in themselves and their children and dress in a manner to show that pride. The same should be true when a service member is off duty they are still a member of the military.

  50. the service member should be responsible for his/her dependents, therefore, the dress code should be given to the SM who then passes it on to his/her family. This way, if there are infractions, the SM will be held responsible for failure to obey. if the dependents don't like it, they can go downtown with the rest of the losers.

  51. i can tell you that some of the bans on objectionable clothing is good sense. Personally, I don't like going to the commissary and seeing extremely short shorts. The woman is telling all the male soldiers that she is hot. Well, they know she is, and she doesn't have to tell them. Since the thongs came out, along with tight jeans, when a woman bends her body to retrieve a shelf item, you see her thong. Whether she knows it or not is not the point. The same goes for males. I really don't admire a man's 'crack' as it appears more like an insult than something to admire. During the Vietnam period, the military wife was expected to wear appropriate clothing, usually a dress, and act properly when on base. Since then, little by little things have changed. If a woman wants respect, then she needs to act respectively. Personally, I don't mind seeing the young soldiers with relaxed clothing like a hat on backwards or muscle shirts, but his underwear needs covering. During the Vietnam era, I raised four boys and two girls. Never at any time did any of them wear inappropriate clothing, nor did they want to. The climate was not there for inappropriate behavior. The military family needs and deserves respect, as they have earned it…..and if you want respect, then there has to be discipline.

  52. I like the spouses complaining "I'm not in the military.. They can't tell me what to do!" While at the same time, you know they're the same ones who try to use their husband/wives rank like it's their own.

  53. If you're concerned about your personal freedoms, move off base. Fort Irwin is a Federal Reservation and the Dept. of the Army is well within its mandate in setting dress standards. If personal pride and acceptance of professional standards don't inspire you to dress appropriately than enforcement of the rules should.

    If you want to look like a hip hop thug or a hooker, the Army or any other service may not be for you. While you are bound by the rules you voluntarily accepted by taking advantage of the privilege of living on base (that's correct, it's not a guaranteed right) you should honor your responsibilities.

  54. I agree with it. It's sad that it's come to this, but there has to be some standard. The way I see people dressed on post is embarrasing and then they get nmad when you look at them (men and women). My hat's off to this Commander and CSM. I hope the rest of the miltary follows the lead!

  55. artymgysgt | August 8, 2013 at 2:19 pm |

    In the early 60's blue jeans such as Levi's were prohibited at my N.C. base. I did not understand the rule but I complied with it. A lot of the crappy fashions we see today originates in urban city gang attire. yeah and that includes the wearing of hoodies when the weather does not call for one.

  56. artymgysgt | August 8, 2013 at 2:44 pm |

    I worked at a club outside the base of Camp Pendleton and we had a dress code. Dress up not down for instance no sport team attire, no camouflage style clothes. It took a while to effect but after being turned away the customers began to dress up and a side note there were less or no fights as the folks didn't want to mess up their good clothes

  57. GobbledyGook | August 8, 2013 at 2:45 pm |

    When I was stationed in Kitzingen(1993-1997, 19 y/o when I got there) I always liked when people's wives and daughters dressed trashy. I considered it truth in advertising, and appreciated it greatly. Now that I am a grown-up, and less inclined to chase anything doe-eyed…maybe tell your people to represent properly? If I liked it when I was young and disgusting, it's probably a bad idea. Plus its the rule. Whatta ya gonna do? That's Army life.

  58. For all out there that are offended by what is on the do not wear list, get over yourselves. I can remember things being far more restrictive back in the 80s. This stuff was in effect then and even more. Some may remember the no ear ring thing for males anywhere on base. I had a friend that would take his out right before going thru the gate. There is more to this than meets the eye, some of this is done because it reflects how gangs represent themselves, some is lewd and some is just common sense which is not so common. What the commander is trying to do is set an attitude of professionalism on his post. Your rights are not eroding. You are allowed to dress however you want off post. I say it is more than a privilege to be allowed on base/post, it is an honor. As such, we should set the standard for the rest to follow instead of being the lemmings and crying when we are asked to act like professionals. Though I am not a fan of Chris Rock, one of his acts addressed a woman dressed in a cheap fashion. Her response was just because I dress this way does not mean I am. His response was no you may not be, but you are wearing the uniform. Like it our not, people judge one another based on the way they dress. This commander knows and understands this and is trying to instill pride and professionalism.

  59. George W. McCormic | August 8, 2013 at 3:11 pm |

    How long will it be before the Commander of Ft Irwin will be forced to back down on his decision. I for one being retired Navy think it is great. It is about time someone layed the law down regarding dress. Nothing perturbes me more than to see someone who dresses like a homeless person or a street walker especially on a military installation. But I guess it is a sign of the times and the times are bad. Danny , you my friend are way out of line, yes you fight to protect freedom, but don't get carried away. If the base commander says this is the way it is, your reply and also your spouse should be aya,aye and carry it out. Your spouse knew when you were married would have to abide by certain rules and regulations by being you spouse, so suck it up junior and live with it. It's not the end of the world. YET

  60. "You can't climb the ladder of success dressed in the costume of failure, every day you get out of bed you dress like your chasing after success not like your only goal was to find month old milk at half-price."

  61. I personally don’t see the problem with the dress code. People should have a little more respect for themselves and others when dressing. The whole pajamas thing out in public is ridiculous. Are you really that lazy you can’t put on real pants? I’m also pregnant and haven’t worn my pajama pants as my regular going out to the store attire. I bought a couple of pairs of maternity stretchy pants that were inexpensive when I could no longer fit into my jeans. I’m not saying you need to do the whole bit and fix your hair and put on makeup but put on normal clothes. I’m also sick to death of the short shorts/skirts. For the price you pay for those scraps of clothing you can afford more material to cover up a little more. That way others don’t have to see you behind hanging out when you bend over. No wonder some ladies get labeled sluts and what not and then have the nerve to get offended. If you didn’t dress like a prostitute you probably would get less of the name calling. The men are no picnic to see with their pants hanging down by their ankles and underwear hanging out either. They look like fools. So overall I yes I can see the positive in this dress code.

  62. My husband and I were stationed on the Marine Corps base in 29 Palms, CA in 1985. There was a dress code then. It is common sense to dress appropriate when you are out in the public . There should not have to be signs and warnings stating that an adult needs to dress properly.

  63. Years back a baseball cap was worn backwards because you were the catcher at a baseball game and your protective face gear would not fit you properly. Nowadays most young people will wear a ball cap backwards thinking they look cool or want people to think they're a thug. Either reason, a ball cap was not made for those purposes. Rules are rules! If you are in someone else's house, you follow their rules.

  64. It is a military post. The commander of the post has every right to impose dress codes. I do however, find the pictures on the posters offensive. There was no need to add pictures to the posters. There are people who do not want their children to see these sorts of things at such a young age. People who want their children to remain as innocent as possible for as long as possible and they should be respected. The writen rules would have been enough. Some of these photos could be considered sexual harrassment where i work (US Postal Service) because sexual hassassment is anything perceived as offensive behavior or print by any person. I would think if the offended parties went to jag and/or a civilian lawyer, they could get the photos removed. Every place in the USA has a dress code.

  65. GySgt Turn | August 8, 2013 at 9:49 pm |

    Madam you fail to realize or understand that on the Military Installation the Commander has complete authority. Much like you do on your own private property. The Military can even deny you the priviledge of not only living on the base but entering it entirely. Even the wearing of civilan clothes off duty, off base by your husband is a priviledge. Your husband signed a contract and for the entire length of time he must honor it, 24-7, You did not, that is true however remember that HE can be punished for YOU disobeying the rules. So by your wanting to act as a rebel you are only hurting his career, paycheck and your own household. These rules have actually probably been in place for a long time just not enforced. On Marine Corps bases they have always been enforced.

  66. Dianna Zerbe | August 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm |

    I believe that if you are on a military installations you should respect others and respect yourself.
    I was on an Air Force Base today and this man had on two pairs of shorts and the second pair hung down the man's butt cheeks. It just looked so nasty! Lord help me JESUS!

  67. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:39 am |

    It honestly disturbs me how few people on here are upset with this and how many actually AGREE with it. Do you honestly like being treated like schoolchildren?

    Banning bandanas? Banning a certain way to wear a hat? Those are both just trying to control a certain fashion that the commander doesn't agree with, it's morally wrong. There is no real reason to ban those things, no logical argument other than "I don't like this particular fashion." Imagine if he had decided to ban hoop earrings or wearing mismatched socks. What if he didn't like jeans and decided to make the whole post "business casual" or decided he didn't like large floppy hats and banned those? Why is banning bandanas and sideways hats alright but not those things? Just because you don't particularly like it or it doesn't effect you?

    cont…

  68. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:39 am |

    part 2

    For pajamas, who gets to decide what constitutes pajamas? And even if you set strict rules then what is the reason to ban them? Because it annoys people? Women who carry designer purses annoy me because they could have fed many, many starving children for the price of one handbag, does that mean that I should try to get them banned?

    The ban on exposed midriffs and short skirts is sexism and rape culture at it's best. I'm assuming men are not allowed to wear shorts that are too short and are not allowed to go around without a shirt? In any case, who decides how much skin is too much shown? Will there be a committee or will it just be an arbitrary thing up to whoever is power tripping that day? Will we start bringing out measuring tapes again to measure the length from a girls knee to her skirt? And what if someone decides that tank tops are inappropriate? Pants on a woman are outright obscene? Shall we be thrust back into the 50's? I won't write more about this subject as there are many, many better feminists and writers out there and I encourage you to read their works.

    cont

  69. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:40 am |

    part 3

    Underwear as outerwear? So superman is banned from post? Seriously though, the picture shows a man in an undershirt and I'd love to know how that is any different from a white tank top.

    No revealing undergarments? This is a very open ended rule, it could be interpreted many different ways but I'm assuming it is saying that your underwear cannot be revealed above you pants or shirt. This combined with the "no sagging trousers" rule is another prime example of changing fashions. Each generation seems to be disgusted with the next generations fashions. Women were once thrown in jail for wearing pants, no one liked the full body wind breaker look of the 80's. But it doesn't matter if you don't like it, to ban it is a violation of one's freedom of expression. You are free to wear what you like, even if someone else does not and that is how it should be. There are no literally "fashion police" and that is defiantly a good thing.
    con…

  70. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:41 am |

    part 4
    It is not a matter of "if you don't like the rules go somewhere else" there are rules in place, especially in tax funded government buildings, to protect your freedom of expression. If I want to dye my hair and wear leather pants and a rainbow tube top with chains connecting my ear piercing and my nose piercings then I can, if I want to dress in Armani business suits with a perfect bun and only the most fashionable shoes and purses and the most expensive jewelry then I can. People will be offended by both types of fashion and that is ok. That is how society works, you see someone who presents an image that you don't like and you decide not to acquaint yourself with them, you don't try to force them into conformity with what you prefer.

    And for the "torn, cut and worn clothing" that is ridiculous materialism at it's best. If something isn't absolutely perfect it isn't worth having? A person should throw away perfectly good clothing because it is a little worn or has a tear? That is incredibly wasteful.

  71. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:41 am |

    For some reason my final comment is pending approval by admins…

  72. MSGT Steve | August 9, 2013 at 9:36 am |

    Now can we get the civil governments to 9implement the same standards? I'm seriously tired of seeing women in pajama pants, fat women in short shorts, ugly dudes with armpit hair or the armpits themselves, sagging pants with underwear (or none). The illiterate morons have taken over. It's time we took things back.

  73. I live here at Irwin. I am all for these policies, which, really are nothing new. It has always been a policy for soldiers to be presentable and show professionalism when on post. I have no problem with this being extended to family members. This isn't about not being able to ware your store purchased ripped jeans or your tank top. It's soiled torn pants and undershirts that are prohibited. As for wearing pj's, I personally never found it appropriate for them to be worn out as daily attire. It's just tacky. It's just another things for some wives here to complain about. I say kudo's to the command for implementing these policies. Thanks for bringing some dignity back to our community.

  74. With all the issues going on out there the biggest thing they could prioritize is a dress code. When I to go there for a physical 2 years ago I watched a Sgt. harass a PFC who was getting his physical for OCS I witnessed her speak to him in away that was unprofessional and condencending. Why because she was having a bad day. Luckily the SFC I was with yanked her ass aside and checked her. This is not the first time I've seen this at Irwin infact its a common thing. So why doesn't the CSMG fix that issue first.

  75. Common sense goes a long way. If you want to dress like some white trash or some thug wanna be, then fine, do it in the privacy of your quarters. Just because you can squeeze10 pounds of mud into a 5 pound sack, doesn't mean you should wear it.

    It's a govt installation they can promulgate whatever dress code they deem appropriate. If you don't want to follow it, go move into the nearest trailer park.

    There is nothing wrong in showing some personal pride and decorum in your appearance when out in public.

  76. teufelhunden | August 10, 2013 at 9:08 pm |

    Good for the Post Commander, spouses behaviour aboard the post/base is a reflection of the servicemember, i might be an "old salt", but when i was on A.D., my C.O's used to say,"If the Corps wanted you to have a wife, they'd have issued you one". If you were E1/E2/E3, or on your 1st enlistment, you had to go through,financial and marriage counseling, and get "permission" from your C.O, before marriage,

  77. teufelhunden | August 10, 2013 at 9:23 pm |

    So,i’m probably going to get burnt on that commentary,but eh, when I married my wife, in 89′ out@ mcagcc29, she understood, after much deliberations, that while on base, she needed to dress and act respectfully, such as during colors, and events, and had no problem with that, yes, it might seem petty, but you signed the contract, and you as a service member are ultimately responsible for your dependants on base behaviour, try trashing a housing unit,see how fast you get tossed., when we left base as single guys, it was ok for plain colored tshirts, and jeans, but tucked in with a belt, and we got checked by the duty nco

  78. There are so many brain washed people here it's sad. This is the first and last time I come to this site. My husband is almost at the end of his long military career, and I am very proud of the fact that I have remained independent and have never been brainwashed. I never wear pajamas, sweats or any clothing that people could object to, but I certainly don't need anyone telling me how to dress. My choice. I'm proud to have remained, independent, and clear thinking.

  79. teufelhunden | August 11, 2013 at 4:11 am |

    Sorry there to the “guest” who thinks anyone who disagrees with her view is(brainwashed)…but my wife may disagree, her oldest comment, even to my command superiors, was that she outranked them, because she was a civilian, but she showed respect, and unlike to many, she never tried to wear my rank, she was and is,her own person,that is not brainwashed , it is called respect, something sorely lacking with much of the pepsi generation, some of us, that put on the uniform didnt do it for the money, or for the benefits, or even the glory….we did it out of pride, out of love for our country, and we continued to do it for our brothers and sisters in uniform, who became our families, even with low pay and high risks,….brainwashed???…well if thats being brainwashed…count me in sister, could think of worse…,

  80. Lodni Kranazon | August 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm |

    All military & goverment bases and posts should adopt this. Like several people have pointed out, the Navy have enforced stardards for a long time.

  81. People seem to forget, Your on a Federal Military Installation and a guest, You may leave or be ask to leave at anytime for misconduct or failure to comply with rules and regulations.

  82. Using regulations to attempt to change culture rarely works. Passing a law or posting a reg is easy; enforcement becomes subjective and public resentment grows. Instead of subtle encouragements and inspiration for others to conform to a different social norm, the command demands obedience. No wonder that the community at Fort Irwin refuses to participate in community events or social gatherings. This is not "Team Irwin," this is elitism versus the "unwashed masses."

    Clearly not having any rotations this past year has left the head shed with too much time on their hands.

    Debates about "class" and decorum are welcome. But instead of "be like me" and see how enriches your life, instead we simply say "do as I say…or else."

  83. Amen!! I find the whole thing ridiculous!

  84. A business/organization can set a dress code. Nobody is forcing you by gun point to shop somewhere.

    It's not any harder to put on pajama pants than it is to put on normal pants, I promise!

    As for the rules about hats and all that, it's related to gangs. I've lived in places where the clubs banned all hats and all solid coloured shirts simply because of gangs affiliations and the potential for fights from that.

  85. Chief Bob Ret | August 12, 2013 at 11:56 am |

    Professionalism is the watchword. We need to act and look like professionals when we are on and off duty. Our dependents also represent the military community so they should conduct themselves accordingly. We are scrutinized more and more and we need to represent ourselves in the best manner possible.

  86. Here's what irks me… A highly paid professional pubilc employee spent A LOT of time and energy on this when he could have been putting those energies into building war-fighting capability and preparedness.

  87. Love it, love it, love it! The rules have been around for a long time. It's just half the garrisons don't enforce it. The commander does have the authority to decide what will be allowed on post (including dress for family members). The post is not a "public facility" and as such family members have to comply or they can (and should) be asked to permantely remove themselves from the base. I personally am sick of seeing inappropriate body parts, people too lazy to get out of their PJ's or clothing items with obnoxious slogans/sayings. You are on a military base. When you or your spouse signed up this was part of the deal. If you want to look like you fell out of bed or out of the gutter go do it off post! The rest of us don't want to see you like that.

  88. o Doo Rags: Its a visor-less hat with the intention of preventing sunburn on top of the head.
    o Pajamas: Why the control of the material? Its cotton, its comfortable. Why are you only allowing me to wear denim and khaki?
    o Tank Tops: comfortable, light and breaths well in heat. Unless you are seriously unfit or haven't washed the shirt in ages then i cannot agree here.
    o Bathing suits: Are we talking about not at all? My point is most of us enjoy going to the beach and forget one last item that we typically run into a store in our bathing suits to fetch.
    o PT's in PX / Commisary: for some junior grade soldiers, this is their off duty attire.

    I never dress in a tasteless fasion, but if you deny me my choice or regulate my personal time then I will go somewhere else and so will other people too. The Commisary and PX already have a hard time keeping customers because of poor management, bad selection, and price manipulation. So why would you make it more difficult to go there? Some of you need to realize what you are buying into here. There's stupid and then there is Army Stupid.

  89. Don't like the policy, move off base. There, wasn't that easy. Next question?

  90. wow — this is not an infringement on your rights — these dress codes are posted and/or made because there are too many individuals out there dressing like lazy ass pieces of shit on military bases — this is not a public store, it is a military store — so they do have that right to invoke these rules — I am a veteran as well as a veteran's spouse — we had military rules and we had military spouse rules — if you join or marry in be ready to adhere to a different lifestyle — you have the right to go somewhere else to shop and wear what you like, but these rules are not ridiculous — it seems they are just asking people to be presentable — you may not understand all of the requirements, but I assure you there are good reasons and am sure someone out there can give you these reasons i.e. backward or sideways ball caps very indicative of gang wear

  91. Listen to all the whining and crying…most likely from the trailer trash portion of the military. It's a military base not a ghetto and they have every right to set a dress code. Welcome to the military folks! Shape up or ship out!!!

  92. There should be one uniform policy to avoid confusion.

  93. What this article doesn't mention is the gym dress code. No tank tops or sleeveless shirts allowed for anyone. Do they sell Nike & Under Armour at the PX – yes! Can you (off duty soldier, spouse, dependent, civilian…) wear it to the gym – NO! Keep in mind, average summer temps are well into the 100s, but at Fort Irwin, one must put on additional clothing to enter the gym. To add – this policy has nothing to do about modesty!

  94. When I was in the military, a dress code was strictly inforced. On base I wore a military uniforn. Off base I wore a class A uniform or appropriate civilian clothing.
    I personally would like o see the military return to this policy. I'm tired of seeing military personnel wearing field uniforms off base.

    On base the dress code mentioned in this article should be requied on all military bases.

  95. I completely agree with this and wish that it was enforced at more bases across more services. The argument that pregnant woman should be allowed to wear pajamas, well that's why they make maternity pants, skirts and dresses. It is just as east to throw on a casual dress and it is just lazy to say you need to wear pajamas. As a military member or family member you should represent the image of professionalism 24/7. Even if I have to run to the shopette on a Sunday morning I still shower and put on reasonable attire that doesn't include any of the banned items. It is not discriminatory it is cultivating a proud military family that should be setting the example.

  96. RalphKramden | August 13, 2013 at 5:48 pm |

    FACT: YOU WILL SHORTEN YOUR HUSBAND'S CAREER, HURT HIS PROMOTIONS. You are affecting your own life an his job/career with your short-sighted and selfish stubbornness. Too bad your husband has to obey the rules AND listen to you whine.

  97. First of all I don't think anyone should be leaving their homes in their pj's & slippers, thats a big NO NO NO! To me the people that do this are advertising themselves as lazy slobs, which you are. Put on some jeans, t-shirt and flip flops or shoes and go run your errands. I think it's so rude and disgusting. That's just unacceptable no matter if you're military or civilian, biggest fashoins faux pas!!!

  98. These were common prohibited off duty attire item on the 2 sub-bases I was stationed on in the 80’s and 90’s, Kudos to fort Irwin to reminding the people that live on and use the post that it’s a Military Base.

  99. I don’t want to see some guys boxers or some chicks thong hanging out of the back of their pants. If you bend over and your butt cheeks hang out of your shorts it is nasty. Pregnant or not, pj’s are for HOME, that is why they make maternity clothes. As spouses we are a representation of our active duty spouse and our country looking like trash or a thug when you go out makes a bad impression.

  100. I LOVE THIS!!! We are at Ft. Hood and sometimes it just blows my mind seeing what people wear on Post. I think the courtesy patrol I always see outside the shopette should have the same ID scanner as the gate guards and if you’re wearing something breaking the dress code, they scan your ID card and multiple offenses should have consequences. I am always dressed appropriately. It’s a military base for god sakes! I hope Hood adopts this SOON!!!

  101. No bikinis? What do they wear at the base pool, a burqa? Too much time in the Middle East, folks. What’s next, segregated time for pool usage? (Make sure the fences are very high, and all views are blocked.) Can’t have the men questioning the ladies’ virtue.

    Wearing bikinis at a pool….What has become of our society? What’s next, women demanding the right to drive cars and vote?

    Or don’t they have a base pool?

  102. This is great, I would love going one day with out seeing to much skin or worse yet, spouses wearing their husbands uniforms. The US Govt does have a right to tell you what you can and cannot wear, you are representing them, if you look like trash, they believe our Armed Forces are trash. If you don't like it, do not use any of the US Govt facilities, MTF, Commissaries, PX, etc. you can go out on the economy and dress whatever way you like. But family members are also help to a higher standard and you represent your service member.

  103. Where does it end is the problem are they going to tell you that your 5yo has a hole in his pants on the knee so you need to take them home and change them immediately because they just tripped in the parking lot of the store. Or when you are taking spike kids to same day dr apts on post because there that sick then you need to change them out of there pjs seriously. There needs to be a middle ground and it needs to be made from common sense not well some people don't like this that or something else. Because you know one day this issue will be expanded to something that affects you and than you'll say wow that doesn't make sense or seem fair, but by than everyone else will say well you didn't care when it affected me why should I care that it affects you.

  104. Gary M. Smith | August 13, 2013 at 7:07 pm |

    I think the dress code is "right on"! Hope they hang in there and enforce the code.

  105. At one time fort Irwin had a pornstar living on base who was married to a active duty soldier. I guess the women on base felt they had to compete!

  106. Hey, Danny, I think you should write a letter to your post commander and explain how these rules are cutting into your first amendment rights. Attach pictures of your family members" in the clothes they prefer to wear, (something from the "banned clothes" poster would help make your point). It is possible that the JAG review missed something when they reviewed it.
    Please share the results with us so we will be better informed concerning what we can or cannot do.
    .

  107. I wish all our military installations would enforce the dress code policies that are currently in the regulations. The installations are federal property and as such it is a privilege not a right, follow the rules. I remember when I was a child my mother had to be in a dress to go shopping, no pants, no curlers….as family members we must follow the regulations/rules on the installation. Times change, thank goodness, but dressing with class does not. Please feel free to express yourself in your home or off the installation. I for one am tired of seeing body parts that should be covered, not covered. By regulations a lot of the tattoos, body piercing's, fingernails, hair color, hair length…are not allowed ( active duty ) some of those regulations and rules apply to the family members also.

  108. I live in southern CA and, even in the coldest days, I wear jean shorts and a tank top. My bra straps are hidden and my butt cheeks don't show.. I'm 60, after all! My husband was stationed at NAS Fallon in the 80's, when I took our daughter up to visit. We'd had to take a room in town (thank goodness for the casino shuttle!) and I dressed to go over there with him, when he had to tell me "no shorts." I was young then, but my shorts were actually pleated, with a pretty belt (some of you probably remember that look), and they looked closer to a modest skirt than shorts. But, no, the big shot's wife didn't approve!!

    I don't think that any clothes that are decent (and I've been to Ft. Irwin, if I couldn't wear tanks up there, I'd probably end up having to see the doctor) should be prohibited. Plus, unless a rule is enforced, 100% (meaning the entitled officers' wives), it's just not fair. Yeah, who said there was fairness in the military?? But, this is STILL America and I have my views and I'm going to express them.. despite how you closed-minded people here treat ANYONE (i.e. Danny) who dares not to sound like a neo-Nazi (yeah, shaved heads and hate filled tattoos are just fine, aren't they??)!

  109. A professional military requires acceptance of arbitrary standards; there should be no argument. My time in the army (early 70's) required acceptance of arbitrary standards at a time everyone in this country wanted complete freedom and anonymity; we survived and were better for it. Today's service members and thei families need to reflect on the future of the armed services and our country, and to become role models rather than just another dude from the hood or Walmart shopper.

  110. And by the way, it's, 'faux pas.'

  111. So glad that I wasn't pregnant on this military installation…I couldn't have gone anywhere because all I wore was pajama pants. Thankfully Walmart is less strict.

  112. Dress codes do serve a purpose. Why should I be forced to look at someone who has their butt cheeks hanging out or showing their underwear. Or a lady showing off her bottom or breasts. It disruptes a soldiers ability to do their jobs. Not all are off duty at the same time. Dress how you like at home but not while you are out in public. You might not care what people think but inapporpriate dress is just that and in the long run it hurts your future. 15 years from now are you going to want to see your kids dressed as you do or do you want to teach them respect. Children learn from their parents and peers. Just think about it. There was a young boy who walked into a resturant his pants down below his butt cheeks. Would you want to eat there having to look at someone's undies. Not me that is just plain gross. What a way to make someones business fail when people stop shopping because there are those who flaunt their wears for all to see and have no respect for themselves. Maybe the posters are a bit much. It got your attention and rightly so. Put on some clothes! And respect yourselves for a change.

  113. If you don't like the standards of the base facilities, shop Wal Mart … It's let in the clowns there. It has been a long time since i was active duty, but we have standards for the military and their dependents if they wanted to have access to base facilities.Welcome to military life.

  114. ALPHA OMEGA | August 14, 2013 at 12:09 am |

    If dress codes are needed, then why is there no universal dress code for all DOD and then only limited exceptions to these need posting.

    The limited postings then would be an indicator of the base commanders mindset, highly spotlighted and easily rectified from base to base.

    Point to consider: I seldom wear a billed cap but if I do so while driving, it is turned to the back so that I have no interference with my vision of the road. Is it possible that I could be pulled over while driving on fort Irwin for this infraction?

  115. They can pass any rules they want for military personnel. And they have to follow them. But they have no business at all telling spouses and children how to dress. Thats complete bull and they should fight it.

  116. Agree with new policy, the posters need to change. They have posters similar (less offensive) in Okinawa. However, the posters in Fort Irwin are offensive. Hopefully, they enforced the policy, because in Okinawa you see Japenese girls dressed with micro mini skirts, high heels and see thru blouses, and no one says anything. You see them in the commissary, PX, shoppette, and even at work dress inappropriate. It’s part of their culture; however, when they married a active duty personnel. They should enforce the rules but they don’t.

  117. They should have a policy for the soldiers at FT Eustis. which I’m sure they do but they don’t enforce it. The younger soldiers and some older ones where reveling clothes. They dress worse then some civilians of the base. And there attitudes aren’t any better. My 3 year old is at that stage where she repeats what she hears. She over heard a soldier tell another soldier that she was gonna make him her b***h… so then she tells me that she is going to make me her b***h. When I said something to the soldier she laugh and said how cute. This is what the Army let in to represent us!!!!!! So sad

  118. Oh… So you are not allowed to dress like a complete idiot? Fort Irwin. Doing things right for a change.

  119. I absolutely agree, it should happen off post as well.

  120. If you don't like it… move into Walmart to fit in with the rest of your "kind"! Have a little respect for the people that DIED for your freedoms! You are free to look like a bag of trash anywhere you want, are you really selfish and ignorant enough to do it on an military installation where the people who have the GUTS to sign their life away to give you those right work and live?

    Quit crying about it! Those rules were in place long before these "styles" came along… if that's your style, more power to you… just do it OFF POST!

  121. Remember you are still a representative of the military in and out of uniform and expected to dress as such and if you married a service member you and your family are taking on that responsibility. So suck it up buttercup

  122. I agree with the dress code reform, it was about time someone had the courage to implement this rules for those that need a little help getting dress before leaving the house, pregnant women no exceptions!

  123. First, let me start by saying I always get dressed before leaving the house. I do not own pajama pants. I brush my hair and wear real shoes (as long as Vibrams count as real shoes). As an American citizen and also a military spouse, I have a few issues with these regulations. I am not familiar with Fort Irwin, so all of my information is coming from the above article. It sounds like if you are stationed there, you pretty much have to live on post. And in order to be on post, you have to follow these dress code rules. So, if you want to live with your spouse who is assigned, with no choice of their own, to this post, you must abide by these rules.
    I understand the ideas behind the ban on visible undergarments that allow too much skin to be seen. I get the no swimsuits thing. I also get the no workout uniforms in public unless you’re actually working out. That’s sort of a hygiene thing, I would expect. The underwear as outerwear needs more clarification. My husband wears a Hanes tee shirt under his uniform. Does that mean I am prohibited from wearing a crew neck tee shirt because it is “underwear”. It literally is "underwear" for his uniforms. What about a tank top like the one pictured? I understand that the one pictured is sold as an undershirt, but I also own women’s tank tops that have the exact same shape, but with a deeper cut neckline and this is sold as “outerwear”. Who clarifies the difference and is there a demonstrable difference?
    I do not agree with the pants sagging ban, because really it is just a style. If that person was wearing sweatpants or colorful boxers underneath and removed their pants completely, they would be left wearing sweatpants (not indecent) or colorful shorts (also not indecent). The stigma we attach to the attire is not based on anything visibly indecent, it is our perception of the clothing. What is the difference between boxers and cotton shorts? Nothing. I personally think the sagging pants style is ridiculous looking, but it's not indecent because skin is not being shown. A thong showing above the pants also, in my opinion, looks ridiculous, but as long as the body parts are covered, it should not be indecent. Now, since the post is declaring midriffs indecent, the thong peeking out would be considered indecent unless the wearer decided to put it OVER her shirt, which would be hilarious to see.
    The pajama pants raise a similar concern. What exactly are "pajamas"? A loose shirt and baggy pair of pants with elastic at the waist? So would any baggy pair of pants or very loose shirt be considered pajamas? What if you wore a shirt you bought in the "pajama" section, but it was well fitted? Is someone checking tags? And what exactly are “houseshoes”? I’m from the Midwest, I am unfamiliar with this term. Does this mean only slippers? Or does it include flip flops and Crocs or any slip-on shoe?
    The ban on slanderous statements, drug paraphernalia, sexually suggestive statements all have a fairly well understood meaning and aren’t open to too much interpretation. These are understandable bans. Obscene and vulgar are less defined and need some clarification. A Congresswoman was accused of vulgarity when she used the medically accurate and relevant v-word (vagina) in a debate about abortion. So we obviously need to set some guidelines for what is considered obscene and vulgar, and the why behind the branding would be very interesting to read about.
    The ban specifically on words on clothing that disagree with the military or government is particularly disturbing. It reeks of propaganda, or at least the beginnings of it. I understand that military members' political voices are limited to an extent, but to also quash the free speech of civilians in order to uphold “decorum” is truly terrifying. This rule specifically targets people who are making a statement of dissent. If we allow some civilians to have their freedoms of speech to be trampled on, we open the door for more and more of the same. These people living on post are first and foremost, American citizens. We rail against the governments that quiet their citizens' dissent and then quietly allow it here at home? At the same time, we send the husbands and wives of those we are silencing off to die in a foreign land defending the citizens there and giving them the freedoms we "enjoy" here. Scary stuff, indeed. The first right in the Bill of Rights is the Freedom of Speech.
    And I'm with Danny – being appalled – at the number of people who embrace this policy and wish is went further – to ban certain haircolors? Wow, talk about giving up personal freedoms. That's a whole other level.

  124. Tell your husband He better get out at the end of this hitch, He'll end up paying for Your mouth.

  125. Navy…I can remember "way back when" I made the mistake of going on base in a T shirt. The Marine gate guard had me pull over and put me on report. I asked if it would be OK to go back home and change. "Sure". Made a U turn, stopped for the Marine on that side, and waited about a minute or so while they argued about putting me on report for going ON liberty in a T shirt…..My Leading Chief thought it was hilarious, and said don't do it again…….

  126. As usual there are a lot of comments from misinformed people here..just for fun..lemme say..on post we DO INDEED pay taxes..they snuck it in ..:()..now to This topic: the dresscode IS in my opinion extreme..backward hats..really??we have dress codes on our base that are just WRONG..they say..no see through shirts..they’re sold at the px on base..mixed message much..torn jeans..they’re SOLD THAT WAY and whatever nimrod came up with the soldiers can not enter in their pts needs to rejoin the military at the BOTTOM aNd see how THEY like stressing over trying to rush SOMEWHERE to scarf something down(don’t wanna eat BEFORE pt!)then rush home (if you’re lucky) or to your car or your barracks or wherever you get to change so you can try to get back to an after pt formation before you get in deep trouble..pts are an official uniform and should not EVER be discriminated against..it’s CRUEL.There are some dress code rules that should be enforced..again in MY opinion..and they’re common SENSE ;)if i see your undies..that’s a problem..don’t walk into any establishment anywhere in nothing but a bathing suit..pretty simple..the rest os just silly..says this army wife anyway..;)..:(

  127. As usual there are a lot of comments from misinformed people here..just for fun..lemme say..on post we DO INDEED pay taxes..they snuck it in ..:()..now to This topic: the dresscode IS in my opinion extreme..backward hats..really??we have dress codes on our base that are just WRONG..they say..no see through shirts..they’re sold at the px on base..mixed message much..torn jeans..they’re SOLD THAT WAY and whatever nimrod came up with the soldiers can not enter in their pts needs to rejoin the military at the BOTTOM aNd see how THEY like stressing over trying to rush SOMEWHERE to scarf something down(don’t wanna eat BEFORE pt!)then rush home (if you’re lucky) or to your car or your barracks or wherever you get to change so you can try to get back to an after pt formation before you get in deep trouble..pts are an official uniform and should not EVER be discriminated against..it’s CRUEL.There are some dress code rules that should be enforced..again in MY opinion..and they’re common SENSE ;)if i see your undies..that’s a problem..don’t walk into any establishment anywhere in nothing but a bathing suit..pretty simple..the rest is just silly..says this army wife anyway..;)..:(

  128. Robert House | August 14, 2013 at 10:38 pm |

    Danny,

    That contract you spoke about. The military I.D. card the spouse uses to purchase the goods from the Government facilities gives the Government authorities (the base commander) the right to prescribe
    appropriate attire in that facility. For my part, I wish we could have the same dress code for all civilians.
    I detest seeing a 30 year old with his pants down and his shorts showing……just one example. Dressing like a jailbird/prisoner or thug or rap singer is sick!! I'm a retired Navy Senior Chief, but I'm an older guy and I still would like to see regulations such as this enforced. I LOVE IT. But, I have to say, in today's environment of PC, I'm afraid someone up the chain of command will change this. Let's hope not.

  129. They should have been military base back in the 60's and 70's it was a lot different then it is now.

  130. RSE - Navy Veteran | August 14, 2013 at 10:53 pm |

    it's a military base an codes, rules and regulations apply, it's that simply, Yes it is a different way of Life …………..

  131. I am in full agreement. I wish the same rules would apply nationwide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Retired Army..

  132. Before Obama and his anti Constitution agenda, I would have agreed with pretty much ALL of this. However, since Obama's push to override almost every aspect of our Constitution I now disagree with the idea of how the military is able to tell me what I can where on off time. Yes I know, as soldiers we are on duty 24/7/365. However, how much further and in what direction do we continue to let the supposed CIC dilute our Constitution? No doubt, as SM we give up many rights the day we sign the dotted line, but IF the military cannot enjoy the freedoms our Constitution gives us, how do we put our lives on the line in defense of our Constitution that MANY want to trample upon?
    Myself, I'm sick of it.

  133. When I was Active we always dressed in a way that was respectful and inline with the Base dress code. To day to many want to wear what is in style. You joined the Military now act like a Military man and family or get out.

  134. if you don't like the dress code then don't go to the base. the CO has the responsibility for public relations in the community and keeping the military installation looking like a military installatiion. i could not agree more and give the base CO kudo's for having the integrity to do the right thing.

  135. 30 yr Army Retired | August 15, 2013 at 12:24 am |

    NO jojo, the reason the chow hall will not let the violin come in is not to keep him from sneaking food out it is to keep others from sneaking bombs in. You have any idea how much devastation would be caused by a violin case or a backpack full of C4?? And like others have stated, if you don't like the rules, leave. No one is forcing you to go on base or stay in the military for that matter.

  136. I think this should be for every post Nation wide. I am a spouse and I am so tired of seeing other spouses dress so inappropriate and even soldiers. This is why the Military have a bad name. If you can't get dressed to go to the store don't go. PJ's are for bed not for shopping pregnant or not. It's just plain LASY….

  137. This is a military installation! Follow the rules or GTFO!

  138. CWO4USNRRET | August 15, 2013 at 1:55 am |

    How is the catcher on a baseball team supposed to put on his mask without turning his ballcap around backwards? This is the ONLY part of the rules I disagree with.

  139. This exact same poster has been all over at Schofield Barracks in Hawaii since at least 2008 and no one has cried about it.

  140. Those that have an issue with this policy must understand that you are on a Federal/Military Installation where those freedoms of speech and what is accepted in this ever downtroden society is accpeted, does not apply here. The military has for years been an organization that promotes decipline, respect and professionalism. We all know that your outward appearance is something that is judged whether we want to admit or not. I have children who were raised on multiple military installations and the Commander is correct is insuring that this type of dress is not allowed. I never allowed any of it in my house or within my eye sight. This policy should be adopted DOD wide and just maybe it will instill in our kids and young adults will learn to respect themselves as well as others. We as adults are supposed to be preparing our kids how to be productive members of society but this type of dress does nothing toward that goal. It only shows them that whatever they want to do is OK, which leads to a deadend.

  141. You are right Danny. No one can tell you what to wear on post. One condition though, give up that Government issued ID card that grants you so many privileges including the right to be on that post. Don't like it? Then go be a civilian and wear whatever demeaning crap you want.

  142. Canton Hall | August 15, 2013 at 7:33 am |

    I have to say, the "short/skirts" and the "swim suits" pics are quite nice. I wouldn't mind seeing them hanging around the base. Funny thing is, they can hang those pictures up around the installation at will, but I can't hang a picture of an attractive and tastefully posed SI Swimsuit model (swimsuit included of course) at my desk.
    Maybe I can just get a couple of copies of this dress code poster and hang them in my cubicle.

  143. Michael Kelly | August 15, 2013 at 7:47 am |

    Army manners of dress have always been regulated, if not specifically imposed and enforced. I retired 26 years ago and the Army regulation back then, as it is now, was AR 670-1. When I was active it was not necessary to to flood a post with posters with specific examples of improper public dress. The unit bulletin board maintained by the unit commander was all that was necessary to implement uniform Army standards and reading the unit bulletin board at least once weekly was required by all soldiers. Everyone back then seemed to understand without specific posters or orders what was customarily good public manners and specific orders with specific examples were not necessarily required. With the 'anything goes attitude' of today I have only one question: "What are commanders and Army leaders supposed to do under orders to implement and enforce Army standards, which are obviously necessary in a 'uniformed environment'?" "Wait until obvious violators begin parading around post completely naked and weirded out from weird music or 'only God knows what' before acting to implement and enforce necessary community standards?"

    P.S. And as far as the comment goes from one lady about PJs, I really don't think that if the PJs are otherwise conservative or modest that any commander or leader is going to take issue with a pregnant woman that is late-term heavy with child, unless "Common and Good Sense" are totally gone from everyone now in military service. But I do wonder what was going on at Fort Irwin that the post commander decided it was necessary to implement a specific examples poster campaign. I know how hot it gets at Fort Irwin in the summer season and how people like to dress lightly in such heat, but do people need be reminded that Fort Irwin is a pre-combat training base and not a public resort?

  144. the backwards hat crap is just someones pet peeve. the same crap they did in korea, area 1….2nd ID. the command needs to focus on real problems and stop wasting tax money on posters like this

  145. You live on a military base which is a privilege, not a right. You WILL obey the rules or lose that privilege.

  146. Is it over the line to expect people to dress like adults!?!? This is the PX/BX/Commissary not walmart…you want to be trash and look like trash don't come on post!!! All services offered on post are privileges not rights!!

  147. I wonder if they stop, face the music and salute the flag at retreat? or is that an infringement of their rights?
    They did volunteer…

  148. Really? You have seen this? I doubt it. Now you're just being stupid.

  149. What’s funny is this is nothing new. These type of ‘rules’ were in place up through the mid/ late `80s. The enforcement seemed to fade as installations stopped checking IDs at the entry points to the various buildings, i.e.: Exchanges, PX, AAFES, dining facilities, Commisarries, etc. I can remember as a kid (dependent of the `60s & `70s) not being able to enter any of these while under age 10 unless escorted by a parent. In the late `80s my wife was turned away at the Exchange entrance because her shirt came to her pants waist, but not past it. I say it’s about time the services start instilling a bit of pride and professionalism back into its’ service members. And as for family members…as already posted above…if you don’t like it, don’t patron the estblishments! It’s just that easy.

  150. I am absolutely for this, barring the PT uniform, We (including our spouse/significant other) should set a positive proffesional image. This is just a part of what makes our military great. Good job CC and Sgt Major!

  151. Mrshowell51 | August 15, 2013 at 9:42 am |

    Pajama pants because you are pregnant? I never once wore pajama pants out of the house when I was pregnant. I was raised so much better than that! Thank you, Mom!

  152. I have read alot of postings that mention flip flops, however, nowhere in the article and the poster does it actually mention flip flops. It mentions "houseshoes" which are NOT flip flops. Lots of folks posting here feed off of each others posts without regard to what the article actaully said.

    I am in complete agreement with the article. It should be implemented on ALL military bases.

    People NEED to be policed, if not we all would be running around doing whatever we want.

    And yes, to comment on a post from sabrincking, there are much bigger fish to fry , like the war. I have read many posts from you and I am assuming that you and your family have been deeply touched by the war. BUT, there are still many many base that are not in the war zone and things in these environments still need to be governed, such as dress codes.

    It does not take an educated person to follow rules. It takes people who understand WHY rules are established to begin with.

  153. 64DWhiteFamily | August 15, 2013 at 10:16 am |

    It is about time. Over 20 years ago when I joined, this was not an issue. YOU WORE APPROPRIATE CLOTHING ON BASE. Now with the kinder gentler military, we get to deal with "this". NO, YOU ARE NOT OFF DUTY…….. YOU ARE ON DUTY 24/7. You may not be at work, but YOU ARE ON DUTY.

    IF YOUR WIFE (SPOUSE) DOESNT LIKE IT… TO DAMN BAD. The military base if for military, dependents are offered an opportunity to live with the military.

    If you don't like it, move off base and enjoy life with all the other delinquents who feel it is their right to show the world their asses.

  154. sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 10:32 am |

    Here's my final thought on this. Some of his list is out and out racist. Period. And I am not black, and I dress very conservatively. If this list had cowboy hats, big belt buckles, Wranglers so tight you probably need a cream for that, etc. You'd throw a hissy fit. I don't think anyone objects to decorum. I don't think anyone objects to people not wearing gang paraphernalia et all, and nobody wants to see anyone's wife walking around 1/2 naked at the commissary. Roger, got it. But half of this list has absolutely nothing to do with any of those things and is really…really…about class and wanting people to conforms to the norm of your social class. That's sort of ridiculous in 2013. At the end of the day the Army has bigger fish to fry and this sort of entrenchment to status quo…never, it never works in Organizations. It just never holds over long term. You can argue that all day, but you'll be wrong.

  155. If you are living on post, then you have to bye by their rules It's a government post and it's a privilege to live on post. When my wife and I lived on post, I was responsible for her and my children's action and dress code. Remember that you join the service ( Husband or Wife ) and sign you name on the doted line and no one broke your arm to do it ! I remember the days when a wife stepped out the house in hair curlers. It was a big no no ! If reported by an MP, the DR went to your CO. and he took action. There was a lot of respect in those days. Time has change and respect is something else.

  156. While I don't personally like some of how I see our young people (in and out of the military) dress, what I find interesting is that the US Army (and probably the other services as well) has to even be bothered with "teaching" and enforcing a dress code. This is something that should have taught by your parents long before you joined the military…… Another example of the generational dumbing-down happening in our great nation………..

  157. RETIREDAFNURSE | August 15, 2013 at 1:28 pm |

    It's unfortunate that commanders have to list and identify offensive dress in public, but more unfortunate is that people actually think that such dress is acceptable! Pajama pants and slippers in public? No- regardless of whether you're pregnant, had had recent surgery, just need to run in to the PX, etc. The fact that buildings are allowed to refuse entry/service to anyone sporting the banned looks is a testament to the fact that respect and decorum are expected of all military personnel and their families. It has nothing to do with income, race, or freedoms. I was born and raised in a public housing project in Baltimore, and am black. It's about judgement; you won't get the respect you deserve if you dress trashy. It hurts others' eyeballs, too…

  158. Did any of you complaining:

    A. READ the forms before you signed them to VOLUNTARILY join the military?
    B. LISTEN to the instructors when you were in Basic Military Training School, your life is not your own any longer?
    OR Officer Training School, you will enforce the rules & regulations of the installation to which you are assigned?
    C. LISTEN to how you are responsible for your family's/dependants' conduct, to uphold the respectful image of the military both on AND off the installation, regardless of the society's newest dress fads or attitudes?

    And lastly, arguing with a fool is only going to make you one too, because a fool will not see the correctness of the issue.

  159. Old Dragoon | August 15, 2013 at 2:48 pm |

    On post, live by the military's rules. Off-post, feel free to look like a bum or tramp… In any case, quit your whining.

  160. I think it about time the world wakes up and realize that everyone does not care to see your sloppy dress. You must remember that the base is U. S. property and that they don't even have to let u on the base. They did not enlist u, It was the active duty individual that they want. It is a privilege for u to use the base facility. shape up or go elsewhere…….

  161. Apparently this place is a circle-jerk. Any opinion that speak out against the policy are down-voted into oblivion…

  162. Excuse me for all of you whining you need to put a cork in it. For the outsiders who don't know butt out, but for you wives you need to get your head out, you're not at home anymore with Mom and Dad, have some respect for yourself. I gave the Air Force 20 and what got me amongst all the services is how wives let themselves go and look like hell. Get it right your spouse signed a contract to represent and when you married them, they should've informed you before you said "I do" these are the rules that you will have to adhere to as a military spouse. It's policy, been there for decades, so fall in line otherwise get the hell out. Your military spouse can be court martialed for your behavior just in case you didn't have a clue. Case in point, my son is stationed at Irwin and how he dresses is his business but when he comes through my door, that pants aren't hanging, no earrings or cap on cockeyed cause he knows I have no problem in using my size 10's up his backside to get the picture correct..

  163. Military installations are cities within themselves. As for Danny, you need to spellcheck, before shooting your mouth off. Uncle Sam pays you and your spouse and if you don't like it, get out and go find another job. There have always been dress codes. People just don't care anymore. Take pride in the uniform that you wear, and inform your wife that she should take pride in the uniform that you wear. Would you want her dressing like that if you were deployed? It is the military's right, and if you want to make waves, they can always dismiss you.

  164. You should NEVER wear PJs to the grocery store. Take some pride in how you dress and have some modesty. When you make Chief in the Air Force they send you to classes to learn etiquette and dress codes. I think that is funny, they really should send new soldiers and new spouses. You have a responsibility to your spouse and the military. And yes, you are on a military installation, so rules can be enforced. People see the Walmart photos on Facebook – do you really want to risk being the next one posted? And the pregnancy thing is not an excuse. There are lots of options out there. If you want freedom to dress how you like, then move off base or get out of the military.

  165. Your husband is so proud of you! You really contribute to his success in a big way!

  166. I have noticed that many of the proponents of this particular regulation have crossed the line as far as the community guidelines. Some not as far as others, but do you really think that telling spouses that their actions could potentially destroy their spouses' career (over a dress code no less); that spouses who don't assimilate should just get the heck off of "your" military base, because you somehow own it, but they don't; or calling a military spouse trash is really the image the military wants amongst their spouses, active duty members, or veterans. Really?! So instead of having a logical discussion, you resort to childish name calling. If this is what the members of the military have become, no thank-you. I would rather go to a military spouse web page that is supportive and helpful. Maybe 3/4 could stand to read the nice little commenting policy on the bottom of the page:

    "We welcome your comments on our blogs. We ask that you keep your comments on topic, socially acceptable and free from slander, personal attacks, threats, and discrimination. We will moderate and delete comments we find to be beyond acceptable, as well as comments containing phone numbers and email addresses. We will block commenting from users who abuse our policies. You can read the official Military.com User Agreement for more information."

  167. From a vet – If the (anal) powers-that-be demand this they should also demand that they clear up their own.
    Service people have it hard enough with their SO's missing them; they (and their SO's) should be allowed to vent/dress any way they want unless they're in combat. It's common sense.

  168. As far as military members go, you understood that you were to become a part of a professional organization where lives are on the line, a profession above all, facing killing machines unlike those that have not served will ever face but for a few rare occasions. I say this, if you are comfortable and have confidence in a doctor or dentist that comes in to perform some sort of surgery on you dressed like that, more power to you, but we professionals hold ourselves to a higher standard, not the CG, not the Garrison Commander and certainly not the Garrison CSM, IF yo have to be told how to dress appropriately off duty, which as you recall you are never off duty, you are a Soldier 24/7, perhaps you made a mistake and should go back to BK or what ever job you were getting away from when you joined this league of consummate professionals. If you have a spouse that does not support you in this awesome responsibility that you have chosen to undertake and have sworn an oath, perhaps you must honor your spouse and ask your 1SG to help you get out, I am a retired 1SG and know thats your first stop shop. IF you wish to remain and keep your spouse that cannot comply with this simple rule, move them off post and let them hang out in Barstow, they will fit right in in most places dressed like that. As Wolf 3B ancient, I understand the land there, and it is a great place, except for the people that have nothing better to do than knock the Army and our way of life.

  169. I think some of these are good, but some are just stupid. We as wives did not join the military, so why should they be allowed to issue orders to us? When they are cutting back on everything and then expect us to dress up to make quick errands, I do not agree with that

  170. All I gotta say, is way to skewer the opposition. Instead of debating the point and making counter arguments based in facts, the proponents of this regulation have resorted to veil insults, threats, and calling people trash. If I were on the fence, I would probably lean towards against this regulation, because so many people are so keen to give up personal freedoms and volun-telling everyone to give up personal freedoms.

    I'm all for a regulation that is logical:
    – Banning offensive t-shirts
    – Banning clothing that shows parts I don't want my kids to see
    – Swim suits in places of business that don't include water

    Banning things like
    – doo rags (which have actually have a legitimate use and are not always a symbol of gang membership/activity)
    – what are house shoes? Slippers? If they are slippers, I have a pair of slippers that have a hard sole that I wear out and about a lot in the winter, because they are comfortable and easy to slip on. Flip flops? I can understand at the annual holiday party in the invitation stating no flip flops, but we live at a beach base, and unless it says semi-formal, I wear flip flops…
    – athletic clothing? I'm a stay at home mom and a runner? I don't own anything but athletic shorts, athletic tops, and besides my flip flops and one pair of dress shoes, all I ever wear is running shoes.
    – short shorts– who's judging the length of shorts? Are 4" inseams too short? 6" inseams? Is it universal?
    – pajamas? Can the person even tell the difference between pajama pants and yoga pants? I'm with the parents who have had a the flu go through the house on a deployment and I must go to the pharmacy which is co-located in the commissary to pick up a prescription. So after spending 6 hours in the middle of the night with a screaming kid at the clinic, I need to run home really quickly and change into non-pajama pants, so that I can get my child's medication.
    – worn clothing? What if I'm painting my house and run out of paint/supplies and since Ft. Irwin is kind of far from town, I run to the BX to pick up paint (yes, they sell paint there). So I should have to change out my torn, paint stained jeans to run really quick to get a refresh of supplies, because worn/dirty clothing is on the banned list?

    I can understand banning some of the clothing mentioned above in a foreign country, where we try to assimilate into a foreign culture as much as possible while visiting their country. But this is the United States of America, not Europe or the Middle East, and while I think that in 99% when I see someone walking around Walmart, the BX, or commissary in pajamas– I think laziness, but then I remember that one time I had to pick up medication after spending half the night in the ER.

  171. I'm surprised that people resent being told to dress appropriately. Do people really think pajama pants, see through garments, displays of underwear, bathing suits, slippers (which I think is what "house shoes" are) are appropriate to wear while shopping? Never mind super short shorts, skirts, etc. I am not a prude but military does hold its members and their dependents and bona fide guest to a higher standard than the civilian retail establishments. While I do think that the trend has moved away from "punishing" spouses for their other half's faux pas, it still can be a subtle, negative reflection. It may not be reflected on an efficiency report but if SGT Jones and SGT Smith are both great soldiers but one of them has a spouse who is a bit brash, doesn't like to follow protocol, isn't a team player, etc. guess who might get the more plum assignment? Sad but true. I think a great spouse helps a lot; much more than a "rebel" spouse hurts. BTW, this is the perspective of a retired National Guard soldier who spent a fair amount of time on and around active component during her 25 years.

  172. I love the way this user agreement works. I get called trash, a liar, and other offending names, and report them, but my posts are sent up to the "authorities" for permission to be posted. There is something seriously wrong with this.

  173. this is insane. sounds like they some nut evangelical preacher, fed him some crazy mushrooms, locked him in a closet and was told; make a dress code for the people of north korea and we will; as a joke, force the military and their family to live by these rules. want that be fun. FOOLS

  174. If you don't respect you or your spouses occupation and what it represents, then get the h— out of the service.

  175. I do not understand the problem. No one should ever dress in the public like any of those pictures. Such dress shows the person has no respectful or value for themselves. Once the person is out of the service and no longer serving our country they can degrade themselves as much as they like.

  176. Before Your Tine | August 17, 2013 at 6:26 pm |

    Back in the day (1985), I went to the commissary as a new spouse and I was informed by ID desk that if anyone felt my clothing was offensive the commissary reserved the right to ask me to leave. On that particular day I was wearing a midriff shirt and running shorts.

    It is disgusting the attire the youth of America choose to wear. If you want the PRIVILEGE of living on base and patronizing it’s facilities, dress appropriately.

  177. If you don't like the rules then don't shop or live on post. You are on a military installation and think you can do what you want. That is why I've never lived on post and I never will. I also don't shop on post unless I'm already there at work. I will go in uniform but I'd rather shop and live off post so that I don't have to look at my senior command every day. When I'm home I can sleep in without morning reveille and I can go outside in my pjs. If you still live on post then you've accepted this rule and have no room to be mad.

  178. What about the spouses that have medical conditions …I can't even wear shoes half the time and my skin is always open so I wear flip flops or soft shoes to be apart of my day to day living what do they have to say about that. I have a skin disease that has affected my whole body. I want to stay independent but for medical reasons what do they do for us!!!!!

  179. I LOVE IT! Everyone should dress decently! I hate seeing anyones underware or parts that should be covered! I wish the AF would follow suit. The few times a month I visit though, the only thing I have seen that I dont agree with is, the visable tatoos!

  180. Dress codes are appropriate for military and those who use the facilities on or off base/post – they normally have followed the norms of society. Lately, the way people dress in this country is appalling. Ask the question of yourself, would you allow your 5 year old child to see someone dressed like that or would you want your 16 year old son seeing young women dressed in that manner? I am not saying that everyone needs to start wearing dark clothing from head to toe, but people, use some common sense when going out – dress the way you want when you are in your yard or quarters. The bottom line – use common sense which this country seems to be loosing nowadays

  181. Parents-start parenting! You are on a military installation, not down in the hood. Start dressing and acting like patriots, not gang bangers. Have some pride and honor or leave the military.

  182. It's amazing to me how many 'touchy-feeley' morons are out there undermining the military at every turn. Pretty soon the SEALs won't be allowed weapons, cuz that might hurt some terrorists' feelings. Where will it end?

    If you're on a military installation, you're under military rules, even spouses and kids-PERIOD. Start being responsible for yourself and your children.

  183. I was in the service and I agree 100% === just wish the schools had these policies!!! Our society has gone to hell in a handbasket because of all the PC crap…….how about getting back to some good old-fashioned common sense!!!!!!!!!

  184. While I agree with the majority that a dress code on a military base infers the privilege of living there, I do wonder how this plays out now that open homosexuality is now allowed since DADT was eliminated, and DOMA is about to go away as well. I mean, if ethical or moral considerations are the reason why the dress code is seen as fit and proper, then where do those ethics and morality come from? We in the civilian world hear about military chaplains being muzzled, not being able to pray in His name, being forced to conduct gay marriages, so guess I'm confused as to what or why, other than external decorum, this is being promulgated?

  185. Walt Harrison | August 18, 2013 at 10:19 pm |

    I served as a pilot in the Airforce from 1955 to 1985. Dress regulations required that we wear uniform of the day to and from work and change into flight suits at the flight line duty station. In the early days we could not leave the flight line in a flight suit,period! In the 1960's rules were less restrictive but under no circumstances could we wear flight suits off base in public. Fatigues were also forbiden off base in public….no stopping to pick up anything on the way home. One evening I was denied entry to the base theater because my nicely pressed new shirt did not have a collar! As for the ladies, women were not allowed in the BX, commissary, or theater in PANTS!Skirts only! Despite these restrictions we never considered complaining because we were a military family living on a military installation. The base commander set the rules and we abided. You all give up some personal liberties when you join the military. In my humble opinion dress code at Ft.Irwin is not overly restrictive.

  186. this is a good wake up call . where have proper dress and manners gone? I am retired military/
    100% disabled veteran . last month was shopping at navy exchange and couldn't move out
    of the way for a uniformed military personnel.(bad foot problem.) well if I didn't move , he would
    of plowed into me. and not a excuse me, sorry please. nothing. perhaps a few classes on manners
    and proper dress may not be so out of line. for what I am seeing-it's a lost art.

  187. sharpshooterjim | August 19, 2013 at 9:26 am |

    As I am a person, who often disagrees with government action, I must agree with them this time. 1. Military people should look sharp, whenever they dress. 2. If you want to be a hood, get out of the Military. 3. Not everyone wants to see your butt crack. 4. Do you realize how stupid you look with your hat on sideways or backwards. You wear your hair backwards, when you are in a lot of wind. Do rags don't belong on an Army installation. As far as the women's dressing apparel, I would be the first to tell you, that i love to see short shorts, midriffs, and bikini's on women whose bodies are attractive in them. But I don't feel, that on a Military base, 40 miles from a town, with mostly men on site, I'm sure there are some horny men. And enticing them can only lead to disasters.

  188. Dan R. USN Ret | August 19, 2013 at 9:36 am |

    I like it!

  189. Bob Theisman | August 19, 2013 at 10:00 am |

    In the late 70's I remember as a teen just getting my driver's licence. I was forced to drive my Mother to the commissary for her weekly food shopping. I noticed a woman in her late 20's walking by with a see through blouse with no bra. Every male in the facility including employees of the commissary followed her around trying to get a view of her. I was surprised that management said nothing or asked her to leave.

  190. When I was a dependent and if we were to get in trouble it would reflect on my dad, and not only would he be in trouble but we would be in trouble as well. So I applaud this man, act right..

  191. Eric Moeller | August 19, 2013 at 2:59 pm |

    Why did these things ever become acceptable. You wouldn't have gotten half-way in the main gate when I was in dressed in that crap without getting corrected. We should dress in a way that represents our military in a positive light and shows we have more respect and bearing than then average civilian and if the spouse doesn't like it they can go back home to mommy!!! Semper Fi

  192. I live here, almost have for an entire year now. These have been put up recently and of course I have noticed. I don't agree with some of these:baseball cap backwards, a lot of people have always worn them backwards, whats wrong with it??; houseshoes/pajamas, so what if you wear them in public? it's your decision, thats all i wore while pregnant, and when i decide to have another baby, i will wear it again regardless of the rules; short-shorts/short skirts, I don't know how many of you live here but damn! it's gets into triple digits everyday during the summer, in the desert, its hot! I'm going to wear short-shorts and skirts out in the 116 degree heat. Given I will not be wearing bootyshorts or showing off my underwear or butt, I agree those are offensive anywhere; torn/cut/worn clothing, it's popular! that's stylish and fashionable now, stores sell cut and torn jeans and worn clothing. I think it should be like a school dress code for those, no cuts or torn above mid-thigh. those would be acceptable they aren't showing anything; and lastly the tanktops, tanktops are my husbands relaxed clothing, he has a drawer full of them and he's gonna have a hard time going anywhere if he isn't allowed to wear them, I don't understand what is wrong with wearing tanktops? I mean does that include sleeveless tops for women? Same thing. But the rest I agree with, people going out showing off underwear and walking around trying to look "ganster" are offensive and downright stupid. No one wants to see all that. But we're all out of school, I don't want a dresscode for my adult life. Every spouse and soldier ought to know what is acceptable to wear in public, especially on base.

  193. Let's see here, what are other big issues besides the "right to wear" what you want? Sexual harrassment comes to mind. Rape is another. And while we're at it, let's toss in divorce. As human beings, we are all subject to giving in to our carnal nature and just doing whatever our lustful taste so desires. Then we wonder why this matter of attempting to enforce a new dress code becomes a reality, that troubles a lot of us. Is our egotistical pride the reason we don't want to be told how to dress? After all, its not like we as military personnel aren't used to that already.
    Thing is, this is not just a military matter. Just look at the stats in civilian life. Sexual harrassment. Rape, both reported and not. Domestic violence. Divorce. Teens do what they've seen in their moms and dads [if they have one, that is]. All because people are simply giving in to what their carnal appetites want.
    Self respect begins with self-control. Plus, learning how to build relationships is about love, and is far more important than being overly concerned with what both men and women choose to wear; and exposing lots of skin does tend to trigger sexual aggressiveness.

  194. This is the military, which represents the true believers of American pride. We should not have to tell someone how to dress if they are really proud of who they are and represent. Living on base is a privledge which should not be taken for granted, and yes there are such things as RULES and REGULATIONS that must be adhered to. If you want to live like a civilian then get the hell out!

  195. I was an Army Brat in the early 50's and all posts required a coat and tie to enter theaters. My, how far we have come.

  196. Since most of the "Banned" items are readily available at the Post Exchange I have a hard time with this type of dress code enforcement for non-military spouses and children. I served in the U.S. ARMY to defend the constitution, which protects free speech, that also includes one's attire. I can remember when I was stationed at Ft. Campbell, KY active-duty military were prohibited from wearing BDUs off Post except to pick-up necessities on the way home from work. Ft Campbell even went so far to have CSMs patrol off Post stores to enforce this, violators were made to attend the Post's CSM School for Soldiers on Saturdays, this was eventually thrown out as unfair punishment and the CSMs were allowed to manage their units instead of being a uniform code cop. Enforcing PT attire is one thing, who wants to stand in close proximity to a smelly Soldier after PT, but who is going to go around now enforcing this "Regulation" instead of performing normal Soldier duties!

  197. CSM Perez===Glad to see some one to put out a decent dress code. Backward and sidesaddle hats are in most cities a sign of a certain gang member. I was once stationed at Fort Irwin, and enjoyed it. Keep up the good work.
    SGM Frank

  198. Welcome to the rules the USMC lives by every day you whiners!!!

  199. Still want to be a part of the elite, all volunteer 1% of the US population in the US military? Then step up and keep the pride that needs to go along with the job. For every installation there is a sign you pass as you enter, reminding you that it is a US Military installation and by entering you agree to all of the rules and regulations of the installation. Read the sign. It also goes so far to let you know that they can search you and your possessions at any time, not just as you enter the gate. Same rule for everyone, civilian and military. By entering, you agree to abide by the rules. If you do not agree, then do not go on that installation! Seems pretty simple. The gate is opening wider for anyone wishing to leave.

  200. Looks like most of the people commenting understand what it means to be on a Military Installation. The Commander has the right to set policies as they see fit. If you don't like it get out or just stay off base! Part of Military Bearing is being obedient to rules and regulations, if this upsets you how will you react if we are in a situation that demands complete trust in your superior and you can't follow them? Grow up and stop whining! And to the spouses, sorry but you have to follow regulations on installations too! If not your spouse can be held accountable!

  201. Welcome to the military,spouses. You go where they go and do what they do. It's called Uniform Code of Military Justice. I think it's great the bases have a dress code.

  202. It's sad they will waste money on posters and trying to keep people within dress code. I understand that most of the examples on the poster are plain common sense! Who walks in the store with short shorts and showing their midriff, showing their underwear, or wearing a swimsuit? I think any self respecting person would have common sense about what is appropriate to wear out but to impose this on spouses and dependents is just stupid. We have bigger things to worry about than what the hell someone is wearing.

  203. Back when I was in the Marine Corps we didn't have this problem. Pants with belt loops will have a belt, NO PT gear, no muscle shirts, bathing suits etc etc, and for the rest of you We DO NOT WEAR CAMMYS off base!!!!!!!!! Present and project a professional image, everyone Mommy and the kids too. I recall a few years ago when my older son took his younger brother to the PX, after he changed out of his "JOE DIRT" cloths……. wife beater t shirt, ripped jeans and backwards hat…….his reply was I ain't in the Marine Corps….to which the reply was…..I AM and we present a good image!! You want freedom to dress as you want, become a civilian again. As far as wives/husbands/kids not being in the military, true don't like it? You are free to shop out in the ville for all your needs. To this day even after I got out of the Marine Corps if I was running to the hardware store I cleaned up some, and the kids? ALWAYS clean and presentable the image you project is what you are judged on.

  204. SGM SMITH (RET) | August 28, 2013 at 8:44 am |

    I feel the CSM and the CMD should be concerned more about the threat of bath saltz and other drugs that are ripping the foundation of our young soldiers. I believe that people have th rights to wear whatever makes them comfortable and the commisary should have the rights to deny them access. Leave the family members attire to be policed by the service member. This is the stupidest policy that I have ever heard of…Oh yea, I am retired SGM with 26 years.

  205. The cry babies of the modern military. just because they are volunteers, they think that the country need them. You volunteer knowing the rules and to obey the rules. That's all the rules, not only the ones you want to. You want to look like something you're not, return to civilain life.

  206. The fact of the matter is you are on a military installation not a public beach as for a spouse or chid you are held responsible for the action of family members when you are in the military if you or your spouse have problems posing a decent adult image maybe you should find a profession where a proper image and professional standards are not an issue, standards and proper decorum should not be jeporadized.

  207. For the individual who wears his pants low & thinks that he has class. WELL, your class is showing that it is in your a—.!
    If you don't like being part of a classy organization, get out. Don't embarrass your soldier, your commander, your country.
    If you are looking for sympathy, look it up in the dictionary, it is between S–t & syphilis.

  208. This reminds me of the US Army in Vietnam; they got to the point that they had too many personnel so they created "Courtesy Patrols" to harass the troops that were not in full and complete uniform. The CP's tried to pull their BS on Navy personnel and were usually told to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. The Navy personnel that were in Nam were there to do a job and they did it damn well. We may have acted like pirates or McHales Navy, but we were a damn good bunch.

  209. Some of this makes since and some don't. That's this is what happens when they build a post in the middle of no where and people are forced to live on post and have to follow stupid rules. Makes no damn sense I can understand the sagging pants, revealing undergarments , and wearing underwear as outward and even the doo rags. But telling someone how to wear a hat really, pajamas and how can you tell someone what is and isn't house shoes, and the exposed midriff first of its so darn hot in this damn place. Workout outfits and thin and short most of the time. Torn pant. -.-' well I can see the ones that show butt cracks I can understand but is seeing someone's knees that serious. I can understand this and then question some. As adults you should know what not to wear and what is acceptable. But find something more serious to put like how unorganized this place is.

  210. Not just increasing our Tricare as of Oct 1st 20013 my wife and I lost our PCM who was 18 miles away and now to keep Tricare Prime. Of course we could change to Tricare extra or standard and pay much more for less. After working with Tricare we found a new PCM 56 miles away from our home, not a problem now at 57 years old but in a few years that may make the price of fuel the least of our worry's or if there is bad weather. Every one I have talked to about this says it has been planed for 4 years now that the General in charge of Tricare decided to change it now but we know who he works for.Vet

  211. It has been my intention to write about this subject for sometime now. The article below has provoked an inner resentment that has been simmering for more than a decade. The issue is the American Dress Code, or lack thereof and how it has deteriorated to a state where everyone has come to some conclusion that they must to look like rag-a-muffins to be in style. The ideas and the "Look" and how it originated is well understood, starting with the "Hippie Generation" and the far left. In addition to dressing down, that whole movement has destroyed the english language, that issue is for another day.

    Back to the issue at hand. It is obvious that the look that is most projected is the "Intimidation Look" where the hair and clothing are worn to rattle the average person and keep them at a distance. Unfortunately, and with the assistance of Hollywood, the media and the far left race baiters the dress code is now based on a third world poverty appearance, dirty T-shit baggy shorts and flip-flops.

    Lets go back a few years to the '60's, children went to school looking clean, with little girls in dresses, boys in pants, a blazer and such. Men went to work with a suit and tie if they worked in the office, if they worked in the factory they had appropriate work clothes. Even the milk man wore a white outfit with a tie. It seems that people had more self respect and wanted to present themselves to the public in way that showed that they cared about their appearance. Housewives would do most of the shopping and would not ever consider going out without getting dressed and would never consider going out in their pajamas or worse.

    The socialist and Far Left infiltrated the schools slowly and in multi pronged attacks, they proposed and supported "JEANS" Day back in the early 60's, usually promoted by the sleaze types of the school trying to make a rebellious statement and acquiesced to by the establishment of the school system, thinking it was a fade that would go away.

    Over time this lead to the present state of the NON DRESS CODE where kids will shot a peer to steal their high price sneakers to be worn with their torn knee ripped up Jeans and raggedy hoddie. Kids of today don't know what getting dressed up means. Most of the time they don't even need to change for halloween, they already scare the hell out of people.

    While all this seemly innocent change was happening the Teachers union started to back fill positions of authority School boards and Superintendents with trained Left Wing zealots, and dressed accordingly. That brings us to the present day educational system that has decimated the traditional syllabus over time and now evolves into the Agenda 21 program called "Common Core" where the kids will be programed rather than educated.

    Back to the subject, if we look back to the 60's and 70's on the protocol for the Military and its dress code on and off Post, it wasn't strict and it didn't have to be. The rules were if you were off Post, you wore either your Class A uniform or appropriate civilian attire, no jeans. You were allowed to ware civilian attire on base if you were not on duty, and you could ware your work uniforms, fatigues or BDU's in your car when driving home if you lived off Post. Simple, as for a spouse going to the commissary, PX or any function on Post, there was no need for a policy, they would not go out unless they were properly dressed. They did not want to bring embarrassment to their husband or themselves.

    If you were assigned overseas, say in Germany or Japan, the dress code was a suit and tie off Post. People enjoyed getting dressed to go to town, have dinner or go to a club. Being dressed brings out the better side of folks, they are less likely to be involved in confrontations or other behavior that would be frowned on by the Military code of conduct.

    The article makes mention of a woman that says, "I never wore pajamas around post until I was pregnant". What in Gods name has pregnancy have to do with parading around in pajamas, aren't they for waring to bed. What happened to maternity clothes. Woman use to be modest and wore comfortable clothes during this private affair. Now they tramp around with their underwear on the outside and leaving very little to the imagination.

    No one is expecting anyone to put on a party dress to go to the commissary, but buffing up a little surely will help with self respect, the same goes when you have to drag the kids along too, they should be appropriately dressed too.

    Laziness and lack of accountability is a huge part of this equation, we hear so much complaining about life in the military, instead of complaining, start looking the part, it's easy. Remember you have elected to serve your country and your country wants to be proud of every one of you, that includes your spouse and kids. If the military will adopt sensible attire and be the example, perhaps we will see a change for the better in a nation wide improved Dress Code.

    Enough said, the Command Sgt. Major Perez is right on and hopefully will be supported on the issue. What none of us need is more regulations telling us how to be decent people. Just Do It.

  212. I remember back in the day we couldn't wear curlers in our hair when going shopping. I love it, get over it n take some pride in yourself be it civilian or military. Now to get fans to wear t-shirts at sporting events n no alcohol.

  213. When I was in the Navy in the 80's, I had to wear shorts & tank tops around base due to severe injuries. I had to have someone help me get dressed. Shorts were the only thing we could get over my cast which went from my toes to the top of my hip. I had dislocated a shoulder and had a spinal injury which made getting a bra on impossible. I remember some jerk LTJG screaming at me when I went to the PX to get food. Had to pay someone to drive me and push the cart while I gimped about on crutches. He had the gall to tell me that I was a disgrace and shouldn't be in public dressed like a whore and I was a sick bay commando. By the way I was injured in the line of duty. I agree that people need to dress better both on & off base, but don't harass the person who stops by the commissary after the gym to pick up a couple of items; or the pregnant women who can't find decent maternity wear; or the injured who might need to wear "unacceptable items" because of casts, drain tubes, colostomy bags, etc.

  214. I think every post and base should enforce this. I hate seeing body parts that should only be seen at home, and underware because the pants are belted at the knees. You are in the military, or retired, or a spouse. There was a contract. You are a representitave for the US Government. Most young people seem to have no common sense, that's all it is ., common sense. Keep up the posters, and make it world wide. My grandson DOES NOT need to see what's under a see thru shirt on a woman, or that its OK to buckle your pants at your knees because you have shorts or briefs under them. He's only 6.

  215. The Base commander is responsible for his territory and I was told I can't speed on base, I can't set up my own store and sell anything I want, I can't have hazordous materials in my house or barracks, so why can't he tell me how to dress and refuse access to the Base of anyone who dosen't want to conform to the rules. I can't walk around the base NUDE, so, where do you draw the line. I compliment the commander for restoring wisdom to protecting the right of people who are offended by bad behavior.

  216. Im all for it. I understand the policy, you are on a military installation, if you dont like it get the hell out or off post. We are professionals and we represent the United States not the shrine circus or Taylor, Michigan. And why on earth would anyone wear thier pants saggy is beyond me that originated in prison.

  217. The only time I have ever gone on post in my "pajamas" was at three am for a cigarette run (although I live off post and avoid going on post). And by "pajamas", I mean a pair of black sweats and a hoodie. Although I dislike the idea that they're delegating what we can and can't wear – I didn't sign on the dotted line, thanks – I follow these general clothing rules, not because I'm told to, but because I know what's appropriate for the setting I'm in and because my behavior and attire reflects on my husband. The same way that I would expect him to behave and dress appropriately if the situation were flipped and I was enlisted and he was my civilian spouse. I think of it as a common courtesy for my husband's career and less of an order I'm following.

    Although I've never had anyone comment on my attire as being inappropriate either so..

  218. I believe there is limitations on what anyone wears in public. OK should we have the right to wear what we want ? yes within limits. Not everyone wants to see butt checks stickin out when you bend over or see breasts out. hairy armpits when we eat food. come on now. Its time to be responsible about what we wear and when…You dont wear club clothes to grocery store..Dont want little kids seeing body parts in store just because someone wants wear a swimsuit top into a store.. there is limitaions and when and where to wear certain attire..its just( RESPECT) to others

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